John-Peace and blessings from the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
John, I will not open your new comment under the posting titled "Interpretation" until you answer the question you've been avoiding: The foundation of the Trinity is centered on the Father and the Son being coequal and coeternal. Yeshua, the Son of God said, "His Father (God) is greater than He." What say you? Is the Father greater than the Son John?
Please read the November posting titled: The Greek System and the Dangers of Following It...again.
In His Loving and Patient Care...Jim
Jesus said, "'If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater (meizon) than I." John 14:28
ReplyDeleteThe short answer is "Yes" the Father is greater than the Son according to John 14:28. The Father sent the Son. This makes him greater.
This does not change the nature of who Jesus is at all.
Jesus as the one sent by the Father takes on a "lesser" position as man. John's audience was denying the humanity of Jesus. "Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater (meizon) than his master, nor is one who is sent greater (meizon) than the one who sent him." John 13:16
So, the real question is how does one understand John 1:1-18 and John 14:28?
The Word was God
The Word was with God
The Word became flesh and lived among us
I go the Father for the Father is greater
You attack a straw man when demanding that John 14:28 must meet the requirements of a creed outside the canon of scripture.
Please answer these two questions: Is the son's name mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace?
ReplyDeleteIs Jesus the Prince of Peace?
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. (KJV)
I'd be more than happy to, once you've answered mine: "Is the Father greater than the Son?" Yes or No my friend? Everything you believe in will be revealed within your answer. I can assure you, the Spirit of God has heard your question many times. He will answer your question through me. Will He be the One that answers my question through you? Around and around and around, the Greek system has no answers within itself; I'll give you my answer again...Yes! The Father is greater than the Son because the Son said so and He spoke everything His Father gave Him to speak. Think about it!!
ReplyDeleteIn His Precious and Loving Care...Jim
John. The Anthansian Creed, which is the origin of what one must believe, if they're to believe in the Trinity says the Father and the Son are to be coequal and coeternal. Anything less than that at [any] time makes that statement null and void. Only the Greek System allows for the picking and choosing of when it is or when it's not permitted to be used within the inspired word of God. You just proved that yourself my friend. You see the Jewish Messiah through the eyes of a Greek System. You can not see Him any other way until you lean not on your own understanding and return to the One that sent Him. John...let your mind wonder any way or anywhere you want with that my friend. The Greek System will offer you many choices...you pick the one you want. If you don't like that one, wait a minute, another option will come your way. The Greek System will keep you in the never ending process of choices and options. If you continue to lean on your own understanding something will rise up from within yourself. "It's all good!" NOT!! You ageed that the Father is greater than the Son...you my friend at that point did well, Yeshua said the same thing. Then you allowed the Greek System to enter into the equation and it, as it always will...placed you back on that carousel...going around and around and around...If you would have just left it at yes the Father is greater than the Son and believed it was given to the Son by the Father to say, you would have seen that the Anthansian Creed is a lie from the pit of hell and if you or anyone else continues to believe in it...your sudden drop...is just ahead. You can stay on the ride my friend and continue to go around and around where you'll have the freedom to let your mind wonder,or, you can surrender yourself (get off the ride)to the One and only true God. If you do surrender, you'll be in agreement with Messiah Yeshua again. Just has He said that His Father is greater than He, He also called His God the only true God and it was His Father that gave Him those words to say also, "Please understand this"...I can safely say that Yeshua's Father gave me those words to say to you. I'm going to repeat them because I'm in agreement with Yeshua's Father, "Please understand this." I'm going to put my faith in Messiah Yeshua and pray for you to not only get off the ride, but, stay off the ride. In Yeshua, all the promises of God are fulfilled my friend. All I had to do was to surrender my mind to God and it was Him that caused me to love and keep His commandments...I have and by His Spirit...I will love and keep His commandments. Please...John, don't give me the Greek Systems interpretation of that my friend...for me...In God..."It [is] all good!!" I get it and the Spirit of God has given me His seal of approval.I say that with great confidence in the One that has called me to deliver His message. I do so with total respect to the only true God...the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and it's in the name of His Son Messiah Yeshua I give thanks...Amen and so be it!
ReplyDeleteIn His Care...Jim
Whenever you disagree with my response you claim I am using the Greek System. There is no such thing as a "Greek System". A different interpretation of a passage is not the Greek System. I believe your definition of the Greek System is really just basic language and grammar skills. Words always must be taken in their context.
ReplyDeleteMy questions for you remain (remember you promised you would answer!) I will REPHRASE my two questions
1. who is the child and son in Isaiah 9?
2. Is the son's name mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace?
These are ALL reference to God -- mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. A Name is more than just a title -- it is reference to character.
Here is the reference:
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Grace and Peace,
John
Mighty God
ReplyDeleteAccording to Deuteronomy 6:4 there is one LORD, not two. Also, if anyone makes the claim that the child born in Isaiah 9:6 and the LORD are two separate beings, one would be admitting that there are two mighty Gods, the child according to Isaiah 9:6 and the LORD according to Isaiah 10:20-21. To acknowledge more than one God is considered polytheism and is a violation of Deuteronomy 6:4, the Shema.
There can be only one correct conclusion with respect to this matter: According to Isaiah 9:6, Isaiah refers to the child as 'el gibbor'. In Isaiah 10:20-21, Isaiah refers to the LORD God as 'el gibbor.' The Shema teaches that there is one God. Therefore, the Messiah is the LORD!
When is ONE = more than ONE.
ReplyDeleteHow the Tanak uses the word ONE to mean more than one but unified.
The Shema
Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD."
This verse stresses the oneness of God is Deuteronomy 6:4 (the Shema). This verse supports a fundamental principle of both rabbinical Judaism and mainstream Christianity. Rabbinical Judaism teaches that God is only one while orthodox Christianity teaches that God is a ONENESS IN UNITY or a compound unity.
So, can "ONE" (echad) be more than one, such as a compound unity?
Yes! Genesis 1:5, the first time this Hebrew word is used in the Scriptures: "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first (echad) day." In this verse, the evening and morning make up one (echad) day. This is a compound unity!
Another example where echad is used with respect to a compound unity can be found in Genesis 2:24, "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one (echad) flesh."
Here, a man is described as leaving his father and mother, cleaving to his wife, and both of them becoming one (echad) flesh.
Another clear example where echad illustrates a compound unity can be found in Ezekiel 37:19. It states, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one (echad) stick, and they shall be one (echad) in mine hand." Here the Lord GOD instructs Ezekiel that there will come a day when the House of Israel and the House of Judah will once again become one (echad) nation, demonstrated by the two sticks becoming one (echad) stick.
These examples show that although there are times when echad does not refer to a oneness in unity, there are some cases when it does. It should also be mentioned that, if God was only
the Hebrew word yachiyd would have been used.
As a general Bible principle, yachiyd means 'only one' while echad can, at times, refer to a compound unity. Since echad is used in Deuteronomy 6:4 with respect to the LORD our God as one (echad) LORD, it should therefore be considered INCONCLUSIVE to claim that God is only one based on this verse alone.
My friend John..."Part two" of Yeshua in the Hebrew Scriptures is coming soon.
ReplyDeleteIn His Patient and Loving care...His son Jim
“That they may with one mind and with one mouth glorify the God and
ReplyDeleteFather of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Apostle Saul (called Paul) Romans 15: 6
(NKJV)
“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.”
Apostle Saul (called Paul), Romans 8: 14 (NKJV)
But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him?
Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct them?” But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Corinthians 2: 10-16, Apostle Saul (called Paul), NKJV
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”
2 Corinthians 1: 3, Apostle Saul (called Paul), NKJV
In Love, In His Care…Jim